No.1354 (AO)

No.1354 
Алексей Оганесян 
(Россия)


(v) Алексей Оганесян (Россия), René Millour (France), Сергей Шумейко (Россия)

Оригинальные сказочные
задачи JF-2018/II:
июль – декабрь’2018


No.1354 Aleksey Oganesjan
Russia

original – 16.12.2018

Solution: (click to show/hide)

white Pg2h7 Sf2c7 Ba2 Kg8 Ra6 black Ke1 Bb8

hs#6                                             (7+2)


No.1354.1 Aleksey Oganesjan, René Millour &
Sergey Shumeiko

Russia / France / Russia

version of No.1354 – 24.12.2018

Solution: (click to show/hide)

white Kb1 Ra3 Bg6 Sc7 Pa2e3 black Kg1 Ba7 Ph2

hs#5                                             (6+3)


28 комментариев: No.1354 (AO)

  1. Александр пишет:

    Леша! Я при решении ход 1.Sa8 даже не рассматривал. Теперь понятно, что коня надо было убрать подальше от контроля большой диагонали.

  2. Ganapathiganapathi пишет:

    English translation of the last two comments, please

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      Aleksandr Sygurov: “I even didn’t consider the move 1.Sa8 when I tried to solve this problem. Yes, now I understand that it is need to hide away a wS from the control of a1-h8”.

      Aleksey Oganesjan: “Yes, the problem is not easy for solving”.

      P. S. Dear Ganapathi, this site has both English and Russian “equal” versions (see right upper corner). Please say: why earlier no one Russian visitor of the site (neither I nor anyone else) never ask translate English comments to Russian?! :))

  3. Ganapathiganapathi пишет:

    I did press the English button but no joy; probably I should have waited.
    Anyway, thank you!
    And only now I understand the need for the key piece to go to a8!

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      >> I did press the English button but no joy; probably I should have waited.

      Oh, maybe you think that if you press the “English” (or the “Russian”) button in the right upper corner then all comments automatically will be translated into another language?! No, of course – in this case only the elements of upper menu (“Home | Главная”, “Site INTRO | О сайте” и т. д.), initial authors’ comments for their problems and some another elements will be translated.

      I meant another: we, Russian visitors of site, always have to translate English comments of this site into Russian (in mind by meaning or via any online translator). So let English-speaking visitors sometimes have to translate Russian comments into English – for more harmony, balance and fairness :)))

  4. Ganapathiganapathi пишет:

    I laughed at your comment and what you say is very correct and I agree with you:)))

  5. René J. Millour пишет:

    Hello Aleksey,

    In your problem the wS moves to release the bB, this helps to find the key.

    White Kg8 Rd8 Bd5 Sb6,g5 Ph7 Black Kf2 Bb8.
    1.Sa8!! Be5 2.Rb8 Ba1 3.Rb2+ Kf1!! 4.Kh8 Kg1 5.Bg8 Kh1 6.Sh3! Bxb2#.
    Here the bB is free and, in my view, the key is more surprising: Sb6 moves only to permit 3.Rb8-b2 [the bB is also possible on a7 (and in this case the wR can be on e8) but, permitting 1…Bd4, the key is not as mysterious].

    Other advantages: 1) Not 1.Rc8 2.Rc2+ 3.Rb2, the premature check prevents 2.Ba1. 2) Not 1.Sc8, preventing 2.Rb8. 3) Not 3…Kg1, 3…Kf1! is a nice TEMPO. 4) Not 6.Sf3, guarding g1 but also d4,e5. 5) Bd5 guards h1, therefore not 5.Sh3 but 5.Bg8, and prevents 1.Rd3 2.Rb3 3.Rb2+. 6) Only 8 pieces!

    What is your opinion?

    Best wishes.

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      Hello Rene,

      Version is very good, but my opinion is less important than Popeye’s opinion :))
      In other words, I already launched a Popeye for solving this version. I’ll say you about results…

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      Dear Rene,

      8

      Unfortunately there is a cooks, for example:
      1.Kh8 Kg3 2.Sc8 Kf4 3.Re8 Ba7 4.Rf8+ Ke5 5.Bg8 Bd4 6.Rf5+ Kxf5#

      I remembered: I specifically set both King put the kings at the maximum distance from each other – including precisely because of these cooks…

  6. Sergey Shumeiko пишет:

    More economical:
    8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b2R1K1
    http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b2R1K1
    hs#6 (6+2)
    1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb2#.

    • Sergey Shumeiko пишет:

      1b2R1K1
      hs#6 (6+2)
      1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.

      • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

        Как вы с Рене почти одинаково думаете 🙂
        Запустил проверяться и вашу версию тоже…

        • Sergey Shumeiko пишет:

          I had that version yesterday:
          8/4k3/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b3RK1
          1b3RK1.
          hs#6 (6+2)
          1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.
          Хотел добавить ещё ход 0-0 hs#7, но так и не получилось.
          I wanted to add another move 0-0 hs#7, but it did not work.

      • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

        Сергей, как заметил здесь Рене, при wRe1 есть побочка: 1.Re5(e6,e8) Be4 2.Rb5(b6,b8) Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7# – конь остался на месте, за счет чего ладья получила лишний ход, чтобы дойти до b7.
        С целью противодействия этой побочке Рене поставил ладью на d1, и сейчас я проверяю эту версию…

  7. Nikola Predrag пишет:

    The most interesting feature in 1354 is the lack of black tempo move: 1.Sd5? Be5 2.Rb6 Ba1 3.Rb2 Kf1 4.Kh8 Ke1 5.Se3 ?? – 6.Bg8 etc.

    So, could Rene’s version begin with 1.Sb6-c4?

  8. René J. Millour пишет:

    It is so evident, I know for a long time that it is possible to convert the second wS into wP in a symmetric position. I preferred the wS for two reasons: 1) the option 6.Sf3?/6.Sh3! was interesting. 2) It was also interesting that wPh7 had the possibility to promote.

    I see your cook. But is it still cooked if the wS is converted into wP? I think the bK has another flight than the mating move. Am I wrong?
    White Kg1 Rd1 Bd4 Sb3 Ph2,h6 Black Kf7 Bb1.
    1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8!! 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.

    [Take care, I explained in my message that Bd5 prevents 1.Rd3 2.Rb3 3.Rb2+. Therefore the diagram “December 18, 2018 at 17:18” is cooked: 1.Re5,6,8 Be4 2.Rb5,6,8 Ba8 3.Rb7+ etc. Am I wrong?]

  9. Nikola Predrag пишет:

    Aleksey, my point was about the extremely obvious cook.
    Rene ignores my post so what about that ‘new’ attempt:
    1.Sc5! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kg8/e8 4.Kh1 Kf8(d8) 5.Bg1(Se6+) Ke8 6.Se6(Bg1) Bxb7#

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      Nikola, now I understand you. Yes, apparently you are right – this your “attempt” is a cook for old and new version of Rene (with wPh6 instead second wS).

      So, Rene and Sergey – in your “joint” (independently of each other) version there is at least one cook that Nikola pointed out – I repeat it with diagram:

      1b1R3K

      Cook: 1.Sc5! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kg8/e8 4.Kh1 Kf8(d8) 5.Bg1(Se6+) Ke8 6.Se6(Bg1) Bxb7#.

  10. René J. Millour пишет:

    The diagram is not right (wK on g1), but the cook is real!

    White Kg8 Ra6 Bd5 Sc7,g5 Ph7 Black Kf2 Bb8.
    1.Sa8!! Be5 2.Rb6 (not 2.Ra2+) Ba1 3.Rb2+ Kf1!! (tempo!) 4.Kh8 Kg1 5.Bg8! (not 5.Sh3) Kh1 6.Sh3! (not 6.Sf3) Bxf2#. 8 pieces.
    [We know how Sg5 can be converted into wP, but I already explained why I prefer wS]

    In this position, I do not see the previous cooks. I may be missing something. Please let me know.

    • Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

      I will check this version too, but I can immediately say you what I don’t like in this version: here two squares (not one, as in my version!) is blocked for wS in initial position – it slightly reduces a choice for solver and slightly reduces a paradox of the key.

      The fact is that exactly the key is the main idea of the problem (together with “4 pieces – 4 corners”, of course), and I don’t want to reduce a “quality” of the key at all, even with economy of one piece (and with adding a black tempo that is not at all related to the main idea).

  11. Aleksey Oganesjan пишет:

    Dear Julia,

    Please publish the following improvement:

    No 1354.1
    Aleksey Oganesjan, René Millour, Sergey Shumeiko

    hs#5 C+ 6+3

    1.Rd3? Kg2 (1…Bd4 2.Rd7??) 2.Rd7 Bd4 3.Rg7 Bh8??

    1.Sa8!! Bd4 2.Ra7 Bh8 3.Rg7 Kg2! (tempo!) 4.Ka1 Kh1 5.Bb1 Bxg7#

    As compared to initial 1354: the key is improved, also Black tempo-move and try with reciprocal interferences of wR and bB were added.

    По сравнению с исходной 1354: улучшено вступление, добавлен черный темпоход и ложная игра со взаимными перекрытиями wR и bB.

  12. SeetharamanSeetharaman пишет:

    Because of the two wonderful tries the key also is great improvement. Black tempo us a nice addition.

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