No.1354 
Aleksey Oganesjan 
(Russia)


(v) Aleksey Oganesjan (Russia), René Millour (France), Sergey Shumeiko (Russia)

Original Fairy problems
JF-2018/II:
July – December’2018


No.1354 Aleksey Oganesjan
Russia

original – 16.12.2018

Solution: (click to show/hide)

white Pg2h7 Sf2c7 Ba2 Kg8 Ra6 black Ke1 Bb8

hs#6                                             (7+2)


No.1354.1 Aleksey Oganesjan, René Millour &
Sergey Shumeiko

Russia / France / Russia

version of No.1354 – 24.12.2018

Solution: (click to show/hide)

white Kb1 Ra3 Bg6 Sc7 Pa2e3 black Kg1 Ba7 Ph2

hs#5                                             (6+3)


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Александр
Александр
1 year ago

Леша! Я при решении ход 1.Sa8 даже не рассматривал. Теперь понятно, что коня надо было убрать подальше от контроля большой диагонали.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Да, для решателя это отнюдь не простая задачка…

ganapathi
ganapathi
1 year ago

English translation of the last two comments, please

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago
Reply to  ganapathi

Aleksandr Sygurov: “I even didn’t consider the move 1.Sa8 when I tried to solve this problem. Yes, now I understand that it is need to hide away a wS from the control of a1-h8”.

Aleksey Oganesjan: “Yes, the problem is not easy for solving”.

P. S. Dear Ganapathi, this site has both English and Russian “equal” versions (see right upper corner). Please say: why earlier no one Russian visitor of the site (neither I nor anyone else) never ask translate English comments to Russian?! :))

ganapathi
ganapathi
1 year ago

I did press the English button but no joy; probably I should have waited.
Anyway, thank you!
And only now I understand the need for the key piece to go to a8!

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago
Reply to  ganapathi

>> I did press the English button but no joy; probably I should have waited.

Oh, maybe you think that if you press the “English” (or the “Russian”) button in the right upper corner then all comments automatically will be translated into another language?! No, of course – in this case only the elements of upper menu (“Home | Главная”, “Site INTRO | О сайте” и т. д.), initial authors’ comments for their problems and some another elements will be translated.

I meant another: we, Russian visitors of site, always have to translate English comments of this site into Russian (in mind by meaning or via any online translator). So let English-speaking visitors sometimes have to translate Russian comments into English – for more harmony, balance and fairness :)))

ganapathi
ganapathi
1 year ago

I laughed at your comment and what you say is very correct and I agree with you:)))

René J. Millour
René J. Millour
1 year ago

Hello Aleksey,

In your problem the wS moves to release the bB, this helps to find the key.

White Kg8 Rd8 Bd5 Sb6,g5 Ph7 Black Kf2 Bb8.
1.Sa8!! Be5 2.Rb8 Ba1 3.Rb2+ Kf1!! 4.Kh8 Kg1 5.Bg8 Kh1 6.Sh3! Bxb2#.
Here the bB is free and, in my view, the key is more surprising: Sb6 moves only to permit 3.Rb8-b2 [the bB is also possible on a7 (and in this case the wR can be on e8) but, permitting 1…Bd4, the key is not as mysterious].

Other advantages: 1) Not 1.Rc8 2.Rc2+ 3.Rb2, the premature check prevents 2.Ba1. 2) Not 1.Sc8, preventing 2.Rb8. 3) Not 3…Kg1, 3…Kf1! is a nice TEMPO. 4) Not 6.Sf3, guarding g1 but also d4,e5. 5) Bd5 guards h1, therefore not 5.Sh3 but 5.Bg8, and prevents 1.Rd3 2.Rb3 3.Rb2+. 6) Only 8 pieces!

What is your opinion?

Best wishes.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Hello Rene,

Version is very good, but my opinion is less important than Popeye’s opinion :))
In other words, I already launched a Popeye for solving this version. I’ll say you about results…

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Dear Rene,

[img]http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?1b1R2K1/7P/1N6/3B2N1/8/8/5k2/8[/img]

Unfortunately there is a cooks, for example:
1.Kh8 Kg3 2.Sc8 Kf4 3.Re8 Ba7 4.Rf8+ Ke5 5.Bg8 Bd4 6.Rf5+ Kxf5#

I remembered: I specifically set both King put the kings at the maximum distance from each other – including precisely because of these cooks…

Sergey Shumeiko
Sergey Shumeiko
1 year ago

More economical:
8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b2R1K1
http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b2R1K1
hs#6 (6+2)
1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb2#.

Sergey Shumeiko
Sergey Shumeiko
1 year ago

[img]http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b2R1K1[/img]
hs#6 (6+2)
1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Как вы с Рене почти одинаково думаете 🙂
Запустил проверяться и вашу версию тоже…

Sergey Shumeiko
Sergey Shumeiko
1 year ago

I had that version yesterday:
8/4k3/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b3RK1
[img]http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/4k3/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b3RK1[/img].
hs#6 (6+2)
1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.
Хотел добавить ещё ход 0-0 hs#7, но так и не получилось.
I wanted to add another move 0-0 hs#7, but it did not work.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Разумеется, здесь будет та же побочка, что и при wRe1+bKf7, как я написал ниже, цитируя Рене.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Сергей, как заметил здесь Рене, при wRe1 есть побочка: 1.Re5(e6,e8) Be4 2.Rb5(b6,b8) Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7# – конь остался на месте, за счет чего ладья получила лишний ход, чтобы дойти до b7.
С целью противодействия этой побочке Рене поставил ладью на d1, и сейчас я проверяю эту версию…

Nikola Predrag
Nikola Predrag
1 year ago

The most interesting feature in 1354 is the lack of black tempo move: 1.Sd5? Be5 2.Rb6 Ba1 3.Rb2 Kf1 4.Kh8 Ke1 5.Se3 ?? – 6.Bg8 etc.

So, could Rene’s version begin with 1.Sb6-c4?

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago
Reply to  Nikola Predrag

Dear Nikola,

The main idea of my problem is “Four pieces – four corners”, and I want to save this idea – it’s my principal point of view.

René J. Millour
René J. Millour
1 year ago

It is so evident, I know for a long time that it is possible to convert the second wS into wP in a symmetric position. I preferred the wS for two reasons: 1) the option 6.Sf3?/6.Sh3! was interesting. 2) It was also interesting that wPh7 had the possibility to promote.

I see your cook. But is it still cooked if the wS is converted into wP? I think the bK has another flight than the mating move. Am I wrong?
White Kg1 Rd1 Bd4 Sb3 Ph2,h6 Black Kf7 Bb1.
1.Sa1!! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kf8!! 4.Kh1 Kg8 5.Bg1 Kh8 6.h7 Bxb7#.

[Take care, I explained in my message that Bd5 prevents 1.Rd3 2.Rb3 3.Rb2+. Therefore the diagram “December 18, 2018 at 17:18” is cooked: 1.Re5,6,8 Be4 2.Rb5,6,8 Ba8 3.Rb7+ etc. Am I wrong?]

Nikola Predrag
Nikola Predrag
1 year ago

Aleksey, my point was about the extremely obvious cook.
Rene ignores my post so what about that ‘new’ attempt:
1.Sc5! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kg8/e8 4.Kh1 Kf8(d8) 5.Bg1(Se6+) Ke8 6.Se6(Bg1) Bxb7#

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago
Reply to  Nikola Predrag

Nikola, now I understand you. Yes, apparently you are right – this your “attempt” is a cook for old and new version of Rene (with wPh6 instead second wS).

So, Rene and Sergey – in your “joint” (independently of each other) version there is at least one cook that Nikola pointed out – I repeat it with diagram:

[img]http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/5k2/7P/8/3B4/1N6/7P/1b1R3K[/img]

Cook: 1.Sc5! Be4 2.Rb1 Ba8 3.Rb7+ Kg8/e8 4.Kh1 Kf8(d8) 5.Bg1(Se6+) Ke8 6.Se6(Bg1) Bxb7#.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

And two more cooks in this version:

1.h7 Kg6 2.h8Q Kg5 3.Qg7+ Kf4 4.Kh1 Kf3 5.Bg1 Be4 6.Qg4+ Kxg4#
1.Sc1 Kg6 2.Kh1 Kg5 3.Bg1 Kg4 4.Rd4+ Kf3 5.Rh4 Be4 6.Rf4+ Kxf4#

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Excuse me – wK must stand on g1, of course.

René J. Millour
René J. Millour
1 year ago

The diagram is not right (wK on g1), but the cook is real!

White Kg8 Ra6 Bd5 Sc7,g5 Ph7 Black Kf2 Bb8.
1.Sa8!! Be5 2.Rb6 (not 2.Ra2+) Ba1 3.Rb2+ Kf1!! (tempo!) 4.Kh8 Kg1 5.Bg8! (not 5.Sh3) Kh1 6.Sh3! (not 6.Sf3) Bxf2#. 8 pieces.
[We know how Sg5 can be converted into wP, but I already explained why I prefer wS]

In this position, I do not see the previous cooks. I may be missing something. Please let me know.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

I will check this version too, but I can immediately say you what I don’t like in this version: here two squares (not one, as in my version!) is blocked for wS in initial position – it slightly reduces a choice for solver and slightly reduces a paradox of the key.

The fact is that exactly the key is the main idea of the problem (together with “4 pieces – 4 corners”, of course), and I don’t want to reduce a “quality” of the key at all, even with economy of one piece (and with adding a black tempo that is not at all related to the main idea).

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

Dear Julia,

Please publish the following improvement:

No 1354.1
Aleksey Oganesjan, René Millour, Sergey Shumeiko
[img][/img]
hs#5 C+ 6+3

1.Rd3? Kg2 (1…Bd4 2.Rd7??) 2.Rd7 Bd4 3.Rg7 Bh8??

1.Sa8!! Bd4 2.Ra7 Bh8 3.Rg7 Kg2! (tempo!) 4.Ka1 Kh1 5.Bb1 Bxg7#

As compared to initial 1354: the key is improved, also Black tempo-move and try with reciprocal interferences of wR and bB were added.

По сравнению с исходной 1354: улучшено вступление, добавлен черный темпоход и ложная игра со взаимными перекрытиями wR и bB.

Aleksey Oganesjan
Aleksey Oganesjan
1 year ago

[img]http://www.yacpdb.org/xfen/?8/b1N5/6B1/8/8/R3P3/P6p/1K4k1[/img]

FEN: 8/b1N5/6B1/8/8/R3P3/P6p/1K4k1

Seetharaman
Seetharaman
1 year ago

Because of the two wonderful tries the key also is great improvement. Black tempo us a nice addition.