Fairy chess composition

# No.1607 (JH)

Original Fairy problems
JF-2021-I:
01.01.2021 - 30.06.2021

Definitions / Определения

No. 1607 Joost de Heer
Netherlands
original - 29.04.2021

neutral pc7b8 black Kb3 white Kd5
++1            2 solutions            1+1+2
Circe Couscous (promotion before rebirth)

Solution: (click to show/hide)

Subscribe
Notify of

Inline Feedbacks
shankar ram
April 29, 2021 22:05

Interesting coincidence. Bot this and 1608 show a two solution two ply AUW!
This variant not (yet) included in our project.
WinChloe says La promotion précède la capture :
When Pawns capture and promote, it is the promoted piece which is taken into account to determine the rebirth square (Circé couscous, Circé clône…)

Joost
April 30, 2021 10:59

It’s a two-solution 1-ply AUW.
There’s a small variation possible with a different promotion type: Kf4 / Kc3 / Pg7h8 with solutions 1. gh8=nQ(+nPd1=nS]++ and 1. gh8=nB[+nPc1=nR]++
The option ‘Promotion precedes capture’ is a way to explain in which order multiple after-move effects should be processed, and not part of the condition itself.

shankar ram
April 30, 2021 11:20

You’re right, Joost!
This is 1 ply, whreas 1608 is 2 ply.
You should publish your second position as a kind of twin.

Seetharaman
April 30, 2021 15:03

Black has to help by choosing the correct piece to promote ! How to indicate the help part in the stipulation? 🤔

shankar ram
April 30, 2021 17:05

WinChloe says “…it is the side of the captured Pawn which chooses the promotion”.

Pawn is neutral => belongs to whoever is having the move

White is having the move => Neutral Pawn b8 belongs to White => White chooses what it(as well as NPc7) promotes to! => No need for any “help part” in the stipulation!

Problem is C+ in WinChloe

Last edited 3 years ago by shankar ram
Nikola Predrag
April 30, 2021 17:30

Capturing own pieces is a fundamental change in the nature of chess and should be explicitely defined within a particular fairy rule.
White may capture a neutral piece exactly because it is partially black (opponent’s).

shankar ram
April 30, 2021 17:56

Some more points:

• nPc7 can be White
• Problem is C+ in Popeye by converting it to a #1 as below:

#1 (3+1+1)

CouscousCirce ( No need for the additional condition Promotion before Rebirth)

b8: Neutral Pawn

1.c7*b8=Q[+nPd1=nB] # !

1.c7*b8=R[+nPa1=nS] # !

Last edited 3 years ago by shankar ram
Joost
April 30, 2021 19:10

WinChloe says “…it is the side of the captured Pawn which chooses the promotion”.

No, that’s Circe coucou, not couscous.

Joost
April 30, 2021 19:08

If the opponent chooses the promotion, it’s called CIrce coucou (and in that case, captures are forbidden if there is a promotion that would lead to selfcheck). For some reason, in Winchloe, promotion is after the rebirth in Couscous, and before the rebirth in coucou. In Popeye, the default for Circe Couscous seems to be promotion before rebirth (but Popeye doesn’t have double-check as stipulation).

Last edited 3 years ago by Joost de Heer
shankar ram
April 30, 2021 18:34

Julia, the link to the FCC project given in the definitions doesn’t work.

Joost de Heer
May 4, 2021 12:15

An older version with a neutral Couscous AUW was published in Chessproblems.ca bulletin a few years ago.
ser-#2, Circe Couscous (promotion before rebirth)
1. h8=nS 2. gh8=nB [+nSc1]#
1. h8=nR 2. gh8=nQ[+nRd1]#
It can be changed into a #1 by moving h7 to h8.

Last edited 3 years ago by Joost de Heer
13
0