As Circe, but the captured piece reappears on the Circe rebirth square of the capturing unit. Pawns reappearing on promotion squares are promoted instantly, at the choice of their own side.
[ENG] As Circe, but the captured piece reappears on the Circe rebirth square of the capturing unit. Pawns reappearing on promotion squares are promoted instantly, at the choice of their own side.
The definition sent by author: Circe couscus (promotion before rebirth): A captured piece is reborn on the Circe rebirth square of the capturing unit. If the capture is done by a pawn on the promotion rank, the promotion occurs first and the rebirth is determined by the promoted piece.
From the Fairy Chess Classification Project: Check (+) and Double Check (++):
The side playing last has given check or double check.
No. 1607 Joost de Heer
Netherlands
original - 29.04.2021
neutral pc7b8
black Kb3
white Kd5
++1 2 solutions 1+1+2
Circe Couscous (promotion before rebirth)
Interesting coincidence. Bot this and 1608 show a two solution two ply AUW!
This variant not (yet) included in our project.
WinChloe says La promotion précède la capture : When Pawns capture and promote, it is the promoted piece which is taken into account to determine the rebirth square (Circé couscous, Circé clône…)
It’s a two-solution 1-ply AUW.
There’s a small variation possible with a different promotion type: Kf4 / Kc3 / Pg7h8 with solutions 1. gh8=nQ(+nPd1=nS]++ and 1. gh8=nB[+nPc1=nR]++
The option ‘Promotion precedes capture’ is a way to explain in which order multiple after-move effects should be processed, and not part of the condition itself.
WinChloe says “…it is the side of the captured Pawn which chooses the promotion”.
Pawn is neutral => belongs to whoever is having the move
White is having the move => Neutral Pawn b8 belongs to White => White chooses what it(as well as NPc7) promotes to! => No need for any “help part” in the stipulation!
Capturing own pieces is a fundamental change in the nature of chess and should be explicitely defined within a particular fairy rule.
White may capture a neutral piece exactly because it is partially black (opponent’s).
If the opponent chooses the promotion, it’s called CIrce coucou (and in that case, captures are forbidden if there is a promotion that would lead to selfcheck). For some reason, in Winchloe, promotion is after the rebirth in Couscous, and before the rebirth in coucou. In Popeye, the default for Circe Couscous seems to be promotion before rebirth (but Popeye doesn’t have double-check as stipulation).
Last edited 2 years ago by Joost de Heer
shankar ram
April 30, 2021 18:34
Julia, the link to the FCC project given in the definitions doesn’t work.
An older version with a neutral Couscous AUW was published in Chessproblems.ca bulletin a few years ago.
ser-#2, Circe Couscous (promotion before rebirth)
1. h8=nS 2. gh8=nB [+nSc1]#
1. h8=nR 2. gh8=nQ[+nRd1]#
It can be changed into a #1 by moving h7 to h8.
Interesting coincidence. Bot this and 1608 show a two solution two ply AUW!
This variant not (yet) included in our project.
WinChloe says La promotion précède la capture :
When Pawns capture and promote, it is the promoted piece which is taken into account to determine the rebirth square (Circé couscous, Circé clône…)
It’s a two-solution 1-ply AUW.
There’s a small variation possible with a different promotion type: Kf4 / Kc3 / Pg7h8 with solutions 1. gh8=nQ(+nPd1=nS]++ and 1. gh8=nB[+nPc1=nR]++
The option ‘Promotion precedes capture’ is a way to explain in which order multiple after-move effects should be processed, and not part of the condition itself.
You’re right, Joost!
This is 1 ply, whreas 1608 is 2 ply.
You should publish your second position as a kind of twin.
Correction: C+ with WinChloe using ‘Circe Couscous’ + ‘La promotion précède la capture’ (by the Author)
Black has to help by choosing the correct piece to promote ! How to indicate the help part in the stipulation? 🤔
WinChloe says “…it is the side of the captured Pawn which chooses the promotion”.
Pawn is neutral => belongs to whoever is having the move
White is having the move => Neutral Pawn b8 belongs to White => White chooses what it(as well as NPc7) promotes to! => No need for any “help part” in the stipulation!
Problem is C+ in WinChloe
Capturing own pieces is a fundamental change in the nature of chess and should be explicitely defined within a particular fairy rule.
White may capture a neutral piece exactly because it is partially black (opponent’s).
Some more points:
#1 (3+1+1)
CouscousCirce ( No need for the additional condition Promotion before Rebirth)
b8: Neutral Pawn
1.c7*b8=Q[+nPd1=nB] # !
1.c7*b8=R[+nPa1=nS] # !
No, that’s Circe coucou, not couscous.
If the opponent chooses the promotion, it’s called CIrce coucou (and in that case, captures are forbidden if there is a promotion that would lead to selfcheck). For some reason, in Winchloe, promotion is after the rebirth in Couscous, and before the rebirth in coucou. In Popeye, the default for Circe Couscous seems to be promotion before rebirth (but Popeye doesn’t have double-check as stipulation).
Julia, the link to the FCC project given in the definitions doesn’t work.
Oh, sorry, the link to FCC project corrected!
An older version with a neutral Couscous AUW was published in Chessproblems.ca bulletin a few years ago.
ser-#2, Circe Couscous (promotion before rebirth)
1. h8=nS 2. gh8=nB [+nSc1]#
1. h8=nR 2. gh8=nQ[+nRd1]#
It can be changed into a #1 by moving h7 to h8.