No.961  Gani Ganapathi (India)Georgy Evseev (Russia) JF-LOGO-1

Original Problems, Julia’s Fairies – 2015 (II): July – December

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Please send your original fairy problems to: julia@juliasfairies.com


No.961 by Gani Ganapathi & Georgy Evseev – Take & Make specific echo-mates in Miniature form. Composed after No.440 (by G.Ganapathi). (JV)


Definition:

Take & Make: Having captured, a unit must immediately, as part of its move, play a non-capturing move in imitation of the captured unit from the capture-square. If no such move is available, the capture is illegal. Promotion by capture occurs only when a pawn arrives on the promotion rank as the result of a take&make move. Checks are as in normal chess: after the notional capture of the checked K, the checking unit does not move away from the King’s square.


No.961 Gani Ganapathi & Georgy Evseev India / Russia original – 27.11.2015 After No.440

Solutions: (click to show/hide)
white Kd8 Pc2d2 black Kd5 Qb2 Sb3c3

h#2             b) Kd8→c8           (3+4) Take & Make


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Luce Sebastien
Luce Sebastien
November 28, 2015 19:48

Dear Gani, Georgy,
your problem remember me a problem of mine
published in Phenix with PWC added :
White : Kd6 Pd4é3
Black : Kç4 Sé6
Sébastien LUCE
Phenix 245 dec 2014 diag 7118
h‡3 2 solutions (3+2) C+
Take & Make
PWC

1.Sf4 Kd7 2.Kd5 é×f4(é2;Sé3) 3.Sç4 é4‡
1.Sç5 d×ç5(d3;Sd4)+ 2.Kç3 é×d4(ç2;Sé3) 3.Kd4 ç3‡
Best
Sebastien

Ganapathi
Ganapathi
January 22, 2016 09:34

Dear Julia,
I notice that on clicking for Solutions, nothing appears!
Anything wrong with my computer?

Paul Rãican
Paul Rãican
January 22, 2016 20:57

If some moves could be replaced with orthodox ones, then these fairy moves don’t justify. The following version demonstrates that d2xc3->d5 is replaced with d4-d5
Pieces
White Kd8 Pd4 Pc2
Black Pb7 Kd5 Sb3 Qb2
h#2 Take&Make 3 solutions

1.Sb3-d2 Kd8-d7 2.Sd2-e4 c2-c4 #
1.Kd5-c6 c2*b3-c5 2.Qb2-b5 d4-d5 #
1.Kd5-d6 d4-d5 2.Qb2-e5 c2*b3-c5 #

seetharaman
seetharaman
January 23, 2016 05:21

The mates work only because of T&M. Therefore one can as well use T&M moves.

Kostas Prentos
Kostas Prentos
January 24, 2016 00:10

Speaking generally, what Paul means is that an effect, or a move, that uses a fairy condition in order to enhance the impression, when it is possible to do without, is not fully justified. As such, it can be replaced with a non fairy specific move, without losing any of its value. I am not referring to this original problem, or to Paul’s version, because I haven’t analyzed either of them.

Looking at the WCCT theme for the fairy section, I realized that it is very easy for a composer to fall into the trap of adding extra material that is not really justified, only for the effect of adding one more thematic move to the content of the problem. Keeping this in mind, I expect the fairy section of the WCCT to be very interesting.

Juraj Lörinc
January 24, 2016 19:27
Reply to  Kostas Prentos

Because of the traps galore, the theme of WCCT G is difficult to compose for, in view of inevitably very much differing views of judges. When the theme was announced, I though the theme is bad. Many months of composing have not changed my view on it. Well, the result might surprise, but I would bet against any positive surprise.

seetharaman
seetharaman
January 25, 2016 09:32
Reply to  Juraj Lörinc

True. Our efforts so far look insipid. Hope some miracle happens.

Ganapathi
Ganapathi
January 25, 2016 17:32

Dear Raican, Juraj,
Pl. tell me if the following version also suffers from the same drawback:-
W Kd8 Pa3d2 B Kc5 Qb2 Sc3 Bb4 (3+4) H#2 T&M
Sol:-
a) 1.Kc5-d6 d2:c3>d5 2.Qb2-e5 a3:b4>c5#
b) Kd8>c8 1.Kc5-c6 a3:b4>c5 2.Qb2-b5 d2:c3>d5#
(Of course, not WCCT G theme)

Ganapathi
Ganapathi
January 25, 2016 20:04

Dear Raican,Juraj
I have further arrived at another version as follows:-
W Pa5d4 B Kc7 Qb4 Bb6 Sc5 (2+4) H#2 T&M NoWk 2 Sol:-
1.Kd8 d4:c5>d7 2.Qe7 a5:b6>c7#
1.Kc8 a5:b6>c7 2.Qb7 d4:c5>d7#
In this setup, White cant mate by orthodox P moves!
Is it ok now?

Juraj Lörinc
February 20, 2016 23:41
Reply to  Ganapathi

Dear Gani, I have been playing with various possibilities and I like the most the following:

Stipulation h#2.5
Condition Take&MakeChess
White Kh7 Pb2 Pe2
Black Rg8 Kd5 Sc3 Sd3 Qc2
2.1.1.1.1

1…Kh7*g8-d8 2.Kd5-d6 b2*c3-d5 3.Qc2-c5 e2*d3-e5 #
1…Kh7*g8-e8 2.Kd5-e6 e2*d3-e5 3.Qc2-f5 b2*c3-d5 #

It avoids twinning and seems to make the captures useful.

Juraj Lörinc
April 7, 2016 22:17
Reply to  Juraj Lörinc

Dear Gani, any opinion on my presented version?

Paul Rãican
Paul Rãican
February 22, 2016 17:42

And if you like three phases:
Stipulation h#3
Condition Take&MakeChess C+
White Kf5 Pb2 Pe2
Black Kd5 Sc3 Sd3 Qc2 Bh5
b)Bh5→a1 c) + bRd1

a)1.Bh5-g6 + Kf5*g6-e8 2.Kd5-e6 e2*d3-e5 3.Qc2-f5 b2*c3-d5 #
b)1.Kd5-d6 b2*c3-d5 2.Ba1-f6 Kf5*f6-d8 3.Qc2-c5 e2*d3-e5 #
c)1.Bh5-g4 + Kf5*g4-c8 2.Kd5-c6 e2*d3-c5 3.Rd1-d5 b2*c3-b5 #

Ganapathi
Ganapathi
April 8, 2016 12:26

Dear Juraj,
Your version of my joint 961 is an improvement as the twinning is neatly avoided. But it is still supposed to suffer from Paul Raican’s criticism.
As for me, I am inclined to vote for Seetharaman’s view that since the final mates are T&M, the earlier moves of White can also be T&M specific!
I would like to have the comments of Georgy Evseev also.

Juraj Lörinc
April 10, 2016 22:04
Reply to  Ganapathi

OK, thank you.